Newsgroups: soc.religion.islam
From: jodar@chaph.usc.edu (Nicholas Jodar)
Subject: The 'Holey' Bible....
Originator: zeeshan@occs.cs.oberlin.edu (Zeeshan Hasan -Moderator) Organization: Oberlin College Computer Science
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 20:03:25 GMT
Message-ID: <1h74i7INNjg8@aludra.usc.edu>
Lines: 551

[Note to Moderator: This is in answer to all of these 'the Bible
has no errors and/or is free of tampering' claims.]

Assalaamu Alaikum,....


***********************************
DISCREPANCIES IN THE NEW TESTAMENT:
***********************************

'There are claimed contradictions that theologians have not resolved to every atheist's satisfaction. There are textual difficulties with which scholars are still wrestling. [After how many thousands of years?] Only a Bible illiterate would deny these and other problems.'

-- 'The Plain Truth,' July, 1975

-----------------------------------

The Qur'an says the Bible is screwed with. Here is some of the evidence.

The following is a list of some of the discrepancies found
within the New Testament (using the 1952 RSV, the most accurate
translation I have thus far). Many of these discrepancies
are found in more than one place, but I've only listed one. (I
don't have THAT much time to kill. :-) There's even more stuff
I could go over in the OLD Testament....) This file is still
being compiled, but I figured I could post it now (it's about
two-thirds done) in answer to the many false statements made
in recent postings.

It is quite obvious from the following that, not only was the
Bible written by men, but that such men, unlike the Prophets (AS)
that have gone before, were not all inspired by GOD (if any were);
the writers of the various books often disagree. What is
disturbing is that so many Christians don't seem to reading their
Bible very closely. The Church isn't helping, either. They
(along with the Israeli Government) have consistently blocked
research of all ancient manuscripts uncovered.

I hope that the following will be informative, and that others,
inshallah, will be encouraged to study the Bible with as much
dedication as I have. For the most accurate translation
available, I suggest 'Knoct's Concordance of the Greek Translation.'
Note, also, that the American Bible Society puts out a version
of the 1611 KJV which, while containing inaccuracies, has many
helps and additional information to those in pursuit of the Truth.


Auzu Billahi Min Ash-Shaitan Nirajeem. Bismillah...


-Brother Abdul Qadir

*************************************************************************

Christians Confess! -------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dr. W. Graham Scroggie of THE 'Moody Bible Institute' of Chicago, in his book 'Is the Bible the Word of God?' (under the heading 'It is Human, Yet Divine,' (page 17) says:

'Yes, the Bible is human, though some, out of a zeal which is not according to knowledge, have denied this. Those books [making up the Bible] have passed through the minds of men, are written in the language of men, were penned by the hands of men, and bear in their style the characteristics of men.'

-------------

Kenneth Cragg, the Anglican Bishop of Jerusalem, in his book 'The Call of the Minaret' (page 277) says:

'Not so the New Testament ... There is condensation and editing; there is choice, reproduction, and witness. The Gospels have come through the mind
of the Church behind the authors. They represent experience and history.'

-------------

From the Preface to the RSV, 1952 ('the product of thirty-two scholars assisted by an advisory committee representing fifty co-operating denominations'):

'... Yet the King James Version has grave defects. By the middle of the nineteenth century, the development of Biblical studies and the discovery of many manuscripts more ancient than those upon which the King James Version was based, made it manifest that these defects are so many and so serious as to call for revision of the English translation.'

-------------

From an article entitled 'The Truth About the Bible,' in an old back issue of 'Look' magazine:

'...as early as 1720, an English authority estimated that there were at least 20,000 errors in the two editions of the New Testament commonly read by Protestants and Catholics. Modern students say there are probably 50,000 errors.'

-------------

From E.G. White, a 'prophetess' of the Seventh Day Adventist Church, in her Bible Commentary (Volume 1, page 14) says:

'The Bible we read today is the work of many copyists who have in most instances done their work with marvellous accuracy. But copyists have not been infallible, and GOD most evidently has not seen fit to preserve them altogether from error in transcribing.'

Still later, she adds: 'I saw that GOD had especially guarded the Bible,' [from what?] 'yet when copies of it were few, learned men had in some instances changed the words, thinking that they were making it plain, when
in reality they were mystifying that which was plain, by causing it to lean
to their established views, which were governed by tradition.'

She says this, and yet STILL says 'Truly, the Bible is the infallible Word
of GOD.'(!) 'Yes, it is adulterated, but pure.'(?!) 'It is human, yet divine.'

?!?!?

Do words have any meaning for such people? Apparently only in a Court of Law....

-------------

On page five of the Foreword in the Jehovah's Witnesses' Bible, (now expunged!) they say/said:

'In copying the inspired originals by hand, the element of human frailty entered in, and so none of the thousands [four thousand, to be exact...]
of copies extant today in the original language are perfect duplicates. The result is that no two copies are exactly alike.'

They conclude: 'The evidence is, therefore, that the original text of the Christian Greek Scriptures ['New Testament'] has been tampered with, the
same as the text of the LXX ['Old Testament'] has been.'

These supposedly rational people then state that no amount of tampering
will 'appreciably affect the authenticity of the Bible.' (?!)

-------------

J.B. Phillips, a prebendary of the Chichester Cathedral, of the Angelical Church in England, refers to the 'Gospel According to St. Matthew' in his introduction to it:

'Early tradition ascribed this Gospel to the apostle Matthew, but scholars nowadays almost all reject this view.' [Indeed, Modern Scholars only hazard
a guess as to the author of 'Luke,' and it wasn't Luke, either....]

But Phillips goes on: 'The author, whom we can conveniently call Matthew, has plain drawn on the mysterious "Q" [for German 'Quella' == 'Sources'], which may have been a collection of oral traditions.' [This is the accepted theory of Modern Western Scholars] 'He has used Mark's Gospel freely, though he has rearranged the order of events and has in several instances used different words for what is plainly the same story.'

The authors of 'Matthew' and 'Luke,' in fact, have COPIED 85% of 'Mark,'
WORD FOR WORD. Believe it or not, the Christians call this wholesale plagiarism 'Divine Inspiration'....

[The OT is even worse. (Isaiah 37 is, in fact, 2 Kings 19, both attributed
to different authors, centuries apart, and both 'inspired' by Allah....) Attributing such nonsense to Allah (AWJ) is blasphemy, and no self-
respecting 'man of GOD' would hear of it.]

-------------

The same J.B. Phillips has this to say about the 'Gospel of St. Luke':

'On his own admission Luke has carefully compared and edited existing material, but it would seem that he had access to a good deal of additional material, and we can reasonably guess at some of the sources from which he drew.'

This author, previously assumed to be 'Luke,' who says 'It seemed good to me also' to 'write an orderly account for you, most excellent Theophilus'.
This is 'Divine Inspiration'?!?

-------------

Anybody who reads plain english can understand what these people are saying. They are saying that the Bible was written by men, not Allah. Further evidence is provided by the fact that the entire Bible is written in the
THIRD PERSON. ('And the Lord said unto Moses...,' 'And Moses said unto the Lord...,' 'The word which Isaiah saw concerning...,' 'And Jesus said to them...' et cetera. Nowhere in the Bible will you find the word 'Bible,'
much less 'Old' or 'New Testament.' Out of four thousand texts, not a
single one has the author's name on it. (Hence the 'According to' in the title of each of the four gospels selected to be included in the Canon.)

Yet they INSIST that the Bible is indeed the word of Allah (!).... Truly, Jesus (AS) was right in saying, '...seeing, they see not; and hearing, they hear not; neither do they understand.' [Mt 13:13]

=========================================================================

Genealogy of Jesus--What Was It? (PBUH) -------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Gospel ''According to Matthew'' tells us that there were fourteen generations between Abraham (AS) and Babylon, and fourteen between Babylon
and Jesus (AS). Despite the claim that the authors of the Gospels were 'Inspired' by Allah, only two of them bothered to record the Genealogy of Jesus (AS). Yet of the two Genealogies given, neither matches the (much earlier) recording in the OT. Who's lying, here?

[Note: The sons of Noah were four: Shem, Ham, Japheth, and Japheth's
elder brother, Eber. (Genesis 10:1, 21)]

Mt. 1:1-17 vs. Lk. 3:23-38 vs. Old Testament
---------- ----------- -------------
- GOD (Allah) --
1 Adam Adam 1
2 Seth Sheth 2
3 Enos Enosch 3
4 Cainan Kenan 4
5 Mahalaleel Mahalaleel 5
6 Jared Jared 6
7 Enoch Enoch 7
8 Methuselah Methuselah 8
9 Lamech Lamech 9
10 Noah Noah 10
11 Shem Shem (heir/Eber)11
12 Arphaxad Arpachshad 12
13 Cainan | 13
14 Shelah Shelah 14
15 Eber Eber 15
16 Peleg Peleg 16
17 Reu Reu 17
18 Serug Serug 18
19 Nahor Nahor 19
20 Terah Terah 20

1 Abraham Abraham Abraham 21
2 Isaac Isaac Isaac 22
3 Jacob Jacob Jacob 23
4 Judah Judah Judah 24
5 Perez ('bastard') Perez ('bastard') | 25
6 Hezron Hezron Hezron 26
7 Ram Arni Ram 27
| Admin | 28
8 Amminadab Amminadab Amminadab 29
9 Nahshon Nahshon Nahshon 30
10 Salmon Sala Salma 31
11 Boaz Boaz Boaz 32
12 Obed Obed Obed 33
13 Jesse Jesse Jesse 34
14 David David David 35
------------- -- ----- -----
FROM ABRAHAM: 14 15 13

1 David David David 35
2 Solomon Nathan Solomon 36
3 Rehoboam Mattatha Rehoboam 37
4 Abijah Menna Abijah 38
5 Asa Melea Asa 39
6 Joshaphat Eliakim Jehoshaphat 40
7 Joram Jonam Joram 41
8 Uzziah Joseph Ahaziah 42
| Judah Joash 43
| Simeon Amaziah 44
| Levi Azariah 45
9 Jotham Matthat Jotham 46
| Jorim | 47
| Eliezer | 48
10 Ahaz Joshua Ahaz 49
11 Hezekiah Er Hezekiah 50
12 Manasseh Elmadam Manasseh 51
13 Amos Cosam Amon 52
14 Josiah Addi Josiah 53
| Melchi Jehoiakim 54
15 Jechoniah Neri Jeconiah 55
----------- -- ------ ---------
TO BABYLON: 15 19 17

1 Shealtiel Shealtiel Pedaiah 56
2 Zerubbabel Zerubbabel Zerubbabel 57
Hananiah 58
Jeshaiah 59
Rhesa Rephaiah 60
Arnan 61
Obadiah 62
Shecaniah 63
Shemaiah 64
Neariah 65
Elioenai 66
Joanan Johanan 67
Joda | 68
Josech ? 69
Semein 70
Mattathias 71
Maath 72
Naggai 73
Esli 74
Nahum 75
Amos 76
Mattathias 77
Joseph 78
Jannai 79
Melchi 80
Levi 81
3 Abiud 82
4 Eliakim 83
5 Azor 84
6 Zadok 85
7 Achim 86
8 Eliud 87
9 Eleazar 88
10 Matthan Matthat 89
11 Jocob Heli 90
12 Joseph Joseph 91
13 Jesus Jesus 92
-------------- -- ----- ---
TO JESUS (AS): 13 23+ 13+


Some Big Booboos:

1) Jesus (AS) cannot possibly be descended 'from David' by BOTH of
David's sons;

2) As a supposed 'bastard,' Perez's line would have been cursed for
at least ten generations, according to the OT, but David (AS) was
made king;

3) Joseph (RAA) could not possibly have been the son of both Jocob
and Heli;

4) Jesus (AS) has to be connected to David (AS) through his mother
Mary (RAA), as Joseph (RAA) wasn't really his father;

5) NEITHER of the two Genealogies are correct, based on the evidence
provided;

6) 'Matthew' has screwed up his 'three groups of fourteen' in his
genealogy;

7) According to 'Luke,' (who is more generous than 'Matthew') there
are still only twenty generations between Abraham and David, which
is impossible, time-wise. (14-16 generations for 8 centuries?)

==========================================================================

Where Are the Apostles?

------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -

Matthew Mark Luke John Barnabas
------- ---- ---- ---- --------
'Peter' (Simon) Peter Peter Peter Peter
Andrew Andrew Andrew Andrew Andrew
James James James James James
John John John John John
Philip Philip Philip Philip Philip
Bartholomew Bartholomew Bartholomew ------
Thomas Thomas Thomas Thomas Thomas
Matthew Matthew Matthew ------ Matthew
James James James ------ James
Thaddeus Thaddeus ----- ------ -----
Simon Simon Simon ------ Simon
Judas Isc. Judas Isc. Judas Isc. Judas Isc. Judas Isc.
Judas Judas
Barnabas (Joses)

[Note: Barnabas is also found in Colosians, Galacians, and Acts.]

=============================================================================== =

Herod Dead or Not?

Mt. 2:19 vs. Mt. 14:1

---------------------

Jesus (AS) Touched, But by Whom?

Mt. 9:18, Mk. 5:21, Lk. 8:40

---------------------

Jesus (AS) Curses the Fig Tree
(One of his few documented mistakes, but when did it happen? And
how did it REALLY happen?)

Mt. 21:18, Mk. 11:12

---------------------

Baptism of Jesus (AS) by John (AS) vs. John (AS)'s Messengers
(Did John (AS) Recognize Jesus (AS) or not?)

Mt. 3:13-15 vs. Mt. 11:2-6

---------------------

Leper or Simon's Mother-in-Law Healed first?

(See Gospels)

---------------------

Palsied Man Healed in Capernaum or Nazareth?

Mt. 9:1-2 vs. Mk. 2:1-4

---------------------

Was the Publican Named Matthew or Levi?
(This particular passage also implies that Matthew was not
the author of the Gospel attributed to him.)

Mt. 9:9 vs. Lk. 5:27

---------------------

When Were the Twelve Really Ordained?

(See Gospels)

---------------------

When Did Jesus (AS) Really Calm the Storm?

(See Gospels)

---------------------

When Did Jesus (AS) Heal the 'Demoniacs,' and Where?
(There is no 'Gergesene,' at least not there, then....)

(See Gospels)

---------------------

When Were the Twelve Given Their Mission?

(See Gospels)

---------------------

From Where Was the Woman of Faith?

Mt. 15:21-22 vs. Mk. 7:24-26

---------------------

Did Jesus (AS) Heal One or Two Blind Men?

Mt. 20:30-34 vs. Lk. 18:35-43

---------------------

When was what Last Supper?

Jn. 13:1 vs. Lk. 7:1

---------------------

The Crowning Speech in 'John' is Missing in
the Other Three Gospels!?

Jn. 13-17

---------------------

John 'Forgets' to Include Jesus (AS)'s
Prayer in the Garden???

---------------------

John Describes the Last Supper in
Numbing Detail, Including Details
Left Out of the Other Gospels,
But 'Forgets' to Mention the
Eucharist!

---------------------

Angel Lies to the Women

Mt. 28:7 vs. Mt. 28:9

---------------------

Paul Contradicts All of
the Sightings of the
'Risen' Jesus (AS) in
the Canonical Gospels

1 Cor. 15:5-7 vs. Gospels

---------------------

Paul Can't Get His Conversion
Story Straight....

Acts 9:3-7 vs. Acts 22:6-9 vs.
Acts 26:12-15

---------------------

Paul Also Can't Get His
Ordainment Story Straight....

Acts 9:10-15 vs. Acts 22:10-15
vs. Acts 26:16-18

---------------------

Moses (AS), Aaron (AS), Hagar (RAA)
and the Apostles (RAA) Witnessed the
Glory of GOD, but Paul was Struck
for Three Days by Seeing Jesus (AS)

Ex. 3:1-6, 19:19-24, Gen. 16:13 and
Gospels vs. Acts 9:8-9

---------------------

Paul Confesses the
Resurrection to be His
Own Doctrine

2 Timothy 2:8

---------------------

Paul Initiates Doctrine
of Jesus (AS) Being
Divine

Acts 9:20

---------------------

Paul Negates the Law

Romans 3:28 and vs. Mt. 5:17-20

---------------------

Paul Denies His Own
Actions/Experiences

Acts 9:28-29, 21:27-36, and 26:19-20
vs. Galatians 1-2

---------------------

Wes,
telnet://ricksbbs.synchro.net:23