Currently we lug around two huge 6 foot towers with low, mid and high's in them, and run them through a giant home made PA system with more knobs and dials then any one human can really understand. The PA was built by our old bass player, and he's no longer with us...

Basically my question is this:

What are you using for vocals when gigging?

Yes if the bar has a PA that's all fine and grand etc, but we tend to get booked into some real dumps where the PA doesn't work anymore, or they don't have one etc.

Shawn
Written on: Monday, 01/28/2008, at 14:53:37

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Re: PA Systems.
By: Shawn Highfield to All on Mon Jan 28 2008 02:53 am

Currently we lug around two huge 6 foot towers with low, mid and high's in them, and run them through a giant home made PA system with more knobs and dials then any one human can really understand. The PA was built by our
old bass player, and he's no longer with us...

Basically my question is this:

What are you using for vocals when gigging?

Something like this: http://tinyurl.com/2zzx6v

Of course, if you can't afford that, you can go without the mics and monitors for less.

digital man (xbox-live: digitlman)

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On Jan 29, 2008 11:25am, DIGITAL MAN wrote to Shawn Highfield:

What are you using for vocals when gigging?

Something like this: http://tinyurl.com/2zzx6v
Of course, if you can't afford that, you can go without the mics and monitors for less.

Wouldn't need the mic's as we (me) already spent a ton of money on those years ago, and they are still great. The monitors we have should be okay as well...

Thanks,

Shawn
Written on: Wednesday, 01/30/2008, at 07:55:56

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Shawn Highfield wrote to All <=-

Currently we lug around two huge 6 foot towers with low, mid and high's
in them, and run them through a giant home made PA system with more
knobs and dials then any one human can really understand. The PA was built by our old bass player, and he's no longer with us...

Basically my question is this:

What are you using for vocals when gigging?

Yes if the bar has a PA that's all fine and grand etc, but we tend to
get booked into some real dumps where the PA doesn't work anymore, or
they don't have one etc.

Lemme see... Since I'm in the business... :)

I'm hoping your not one who thinks that the drums and instruments don't need to be mic'd... That depends on the
venu. If your in a little 50-100 person club... yea, you could get away with a couple of 15" speakers, a little
Yamaha 4500 amp running a little 8 port mixer with just your vocals... but anything over that, you need to mic's
the instruments. Also by putting Mic's on the instruments, they don't have to bring some big Marshall half
stack...

The mixer size depends on what you need. What you need, depends on the number of vocals, and instruments.

A standard drum set with 3 toms, snare, High Hat, Kick Bass, ride and other assorted china... I normally use 7
mic's for this kind of drum set... I have a couple of different models of drum mic's. Peavy, Shure, etc. Next,
your guitar player's amp, bass players amp, and keyboards, etc... each amp needs a mic, unless its got a direct
out connection... I use Shure SM57's for the guitars. Keyboardist usually don't bring an amp, and so I plug
them into direct boxes. Alot of the current Bass amps have direct out ports built into them. Vocals... I use
Shure SM58's unless they provide their own wireless setup.

Basically, any mixer, Beringer, Yamaha, Eurodesk, Yorkvill, whatever... you need a base setup that can handle
what you want to mic. I highly suggest something with 16 ports as a minimum... You also want to find a board
that has enough monitor connections for your setup. Monitors can be self powered if need be...

I've recently seen some nice mixers for just over $1000 dollars that are 24 - 32 ports, with the ability of
running 8 monitor mixes. I believe they are from Yorkville... Of course, you need your Amps, EQ's, and such...

You didn't state what kind of amp setup you have, nor what the speakers are actually... "Low, mid and high's"
means nothing. Are they 18" bass speakers, 15" mid's and horns for the highs? What kind of amps? Yamaha's,
Peavey? Wattage?

There's another area you didn't touch... Compressors/Limitors, effects (Reverb, Delay, Chours). Equilizers?

See, You asked a simple question, but its not as simple as you thought. :)


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Digital Man wrote to Shawn Highfield <=-

Re: PA Systems.
By: Shawn Highfield to All on Mon Jan 28 2008 02:53 am

Currently we lug around two huge 6 foot towers with low, mid and high's in them, and run them through a giant home made PA system with more knobs and dials then any one human can really understand. The PA was built by our
old bass player, and he's no longer with us...

Basically my question is this:

What are you using for vocals when gigging?

Something like this: http://tinyurl.com/2zzx6v

Of course, if you can't afford that, you can go without the mics and monitors for less.

Like the Yamaha, but highly dislike the AKG mic's. :) Not going to do much around a club larger than 100
people.



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SNIPER wrote to Shawn Highfield <=-

I'm hoping your not one who thinks that the drums and instruments don't need to be mic'd... That depends on the

I sure am. :)

venu. If your in a little 50-100 person club... yea, you could get
away with a couple of 15" speakers, a little

Mainly because we play tiny little crapholes. We're one of the last
of the true punk bands. ;) We're way to old, and all teh kids call us grand-dad, but 25 seconds ntot he first song they are all moshing. ;)

You didn't state what kind of amp setup you have, nor what the speakers

We run the bass through the speakers, with 4 vocal mic's. Guitars are run through 25 year old peevy tube amp's. I'll have to get pictures of our
vintage equipment for you.

There's another area you didn't touch... Compressors/Limitors, effects (Reverb, Delay, Chours). Equilizers?

Just compressors on the vocal channels.

See, You asked a simple question, but its not as simple as you thought.

Yeah, I think we'll stick with our mess of home made garbage for now. I don't have the time to learn all this anymore, I just wanna crank the dials
to 11, plug in and blow minds. ;)

Shawn


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Shawn Highfield wrote to SNIPER <=-

SNIPER wrote to Shawn Highfield <=-

I'm hoping your not one who thinks that the drums and instruments don't need to be mic'd... That depends on the

I sure am. :)

That means your either the guitar player, or the lead singer. You damn sure aren't the drummer or the bass player. :)
After re-reading the message, I amend this last statement to the Guitar Player.
<Crank it to 11> kinda gave it away. :)

venu. If your in a little 50-100 person club... yea, you could get
away with a couple of 15" speakers, a little

Mainly because we play tiny little crapholes. We're one of the last
of the true punk bands. ;) We're way to old, and all teh kids call us grand-dad, but 25 seconds ntot he first song they are all moshing. ;)

Just long enough for them to grab their first drink. :)

You didn't state what kind of amp setup you have, nor what the speakers

We run the bass through the speakers, with 4 vocal mic's. Guitars
are run through 25 year old peevy tube amp's. I'll have to get
pictures of our vintage equipment for you.

Peavey Tube amps? Geez... if your that old, you should be running through Marshalls, or Fender Reverb Twin... Maybe an old
VOX... :) But what I was talking about is your PA system... what kind of amps are you using to push your 6' high speaker
cabinets?

I got an old Sun Alpha 212r. That's what I play through now. I use to play through a Marshall... But size and weight were a
contributing factor there. :)

There's another area you didn't touch... Compressors/Limitors, effects (Reverb, Delay, Chours). Equilizers?

Just compressors on the vocal channels.

Figures... Just like a musician... all you wanna do is put some noise out there... don't give a shit what it sounds like.

Depending on the room, you need some delay/echo and Chours effects... reverb gives the vocals some depth... I even put some
reverb on the snare and highhat, and then depending on the sound, some reverb on the bass.

See, You asked a simple question, but its not as simple as you thought.

Yeah, I think we'll stick with our mess of home made garbage for now.
I don't have the time to learn all this anymore, I just wanna crank
the dials to 11, plug in and blow minds. ;)

And that's probably why your still playing in "Tiny little craphole" venus. :)

Sound in a recording studio is one thing... live sound is a completely different animal.

I've gotten in arguments numerous times with studio engineers over this. What sounds good in a studio sounds like crap in a
live venue. I had this one guy tell me, "less is more". When it comes to a club, the people want to hear that thump... they
want to feel that thump... If the thump isn't there, they think it sounds like crap and the people start leaving. I've proved
it... I let this studio guy setup the sound the way he though it should be... He completely removed the Kick drum... pulled
the bass back so it almost sounded like a guitar... even the Tom's... I could hear when the drummer hit them, but, there was
no resonance, he completely toned them back to nothingness. The only thing that stood out was the vocals... to me, it sounded
like Karokee.

I watched the begining of the first set with this type of setup. Not one person even ventured up to the floor to dance. A
bunch of people got up and left... Anyway, I stepped in and redialed it all in.
Pulled up the Bass, Kick drumr, etc... put
some thump back into it, and wouldn't you know it... people started getting up on the floor, people turned around and were
interested in the show... Needless to say, that guy left the show and hasn't ever bothered me again.

Its a band... all the instruments are important. There is not one single instrument <vocals are an instrument> that is more
important than another. Guitar players have a very hard time realizing this concept.

Why do you think when you go out and buy a CD, and listen to it through your stereo, you turn up the lows and high end? I'll
bet your equalizer is in a V shape. Pushing the lows and pushing the highs, toneing down the mids... :) Damn guitar
players! Ain't got no damn ears! :)

I'll bet you Digitalman will agree with me! :) He's a drummer.

DO you know who makes the best sound engineers? Drummers and Bass players. Guitarist are too full of themselves, Keyboardist
think they know everything and vocalist know nothing at all. :)






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about Re: PA Systems. -\\

SNIPER wrote to Shawn Highfield <=-

See, You asked a simple question, but its not as simple as you thought.

Yeah, I think we'll stick with our mess of home made garbage for now.
I don't have the time to learn all this anymore, I just wanna crank
the dials to 11, plug in and blow minds. ;)

You should live at near the airport.



When you make the finding yourself - even if
you're the last person on Earth to see the
light - you'll never forget it. -- Carl Sagan


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SNIPER wrote to Shawn Highfield <=-

That means your either the guitar player, or the lead singer. You damn sure aren't the drummer or the bass player. :)

Very true, I have talent. ;) I do play the bass in the studio though,
and used to be a pretty good bass player when I was a teenager.

<Crank it to 11> kinda gave it away. :)

Aye.

Peavey Tube amps? Geez... if your that old, you should be running
through Marshalls, or Fender Reverb Twin... Maybe an old

Never had money to spend on this, we don't really take it serious and
never have. The only time music becomes a business for me is when
I'm being paid for something (Normally a jingle, or a paradoy for
someone).

VOX... :) But what I was talking about is your PA system... what kind
of amps are you using to push your 6' high speaker
cabinets?

They are old as sin No name brand built in a knob hill farms basket
amps. I'll go look tonight if I ever get home.

Depending on the room, you need some delay/echo and Chours effects...

Dont need it for the clubs we play. We have used some delay/echo effects when we play outside shows though.

And that's probably why your still playing in "Tiny little craphole" venus. :)

That and we know it's not a real job. We don't kid ourselfs about
getting signed adn never have. Been playing togther for 20+ years now
and can still book at clubs with nothing more then a phone call. So
for what we are, I'm calling it a sucess! ;)

interested in the show... Needless to say, that guy left the show and hasn't ever bothered me again.

Laugh good for you.

highs, toneing down the mids... :) Damn guitar
players! Ain't got no damn ears! :)

AT least we have talent. ;)

I'll bet you Digitalman will agree with me! :) He's a drummer.

What do you call the crazy ugly guy who hangs out with musicians?
The DRUMMER! ;) <Ducks under table>

think they know everything and vocalist know nothing at all. :)

My wife is our lead vocalist / lead guitar and she's got a great
ear! When I write new songs she yells at me from the other end of the
house if something "twings" in her ears. ;)


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Re: Re: PA Systems.
By: Sniper to Shawn Highfield on Thu Jan 31 2008 05:46 pm

Why do you think when you go out and buy a CD, and listen to it through
your stereo, you turn up the lows and high end? I'll
bet your equalizer is in a V shape. Pushing the lows and pushing the
highs, toneing down the mids... :) Damn guitar
players! Ain't got no damn ears! :)

When I buy a CD and listen to it through my stereo, I cut the EQ circuits out completely and run it through a straight DC power amp. The levels have already been adjusted. You don't need an EQ, you need better speakers.

Regarding shows, the only thing I ever adjusted frequency response on was voice channels... let's face it, some voices NEED that. For everything else, you fiddle with the level, not the response.

Reverb and echo, of course, are different beasts. Interestingly enough, a good reverb can obviate the need to adjust the frequency response for marginal voices.

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Deuce wrote to Sniper <=-

Re: Re: PA Systems.
By: Sniper to Shawn Highfield on Thu Jan 31 2008 05:46 pm

Why do you think when you go out and buy a CD, and listen to it through
your stereo, you turn up the lows and high end? I'll
bet your equalizer is in a V shape. Pushing the lows and pushing the
highs, toneing down the mids... :) Damn guitar
players! Ain't got no damn ears! :)

When I buy a CD and listen to it through my stereo, I cut the EQ
circuits out completely and run it through a straight DC power amp.
The levels have already been adjusted. You don't need an EQ, you need better speakers.

On my personal end, I have my EQ on, but its basically flat. I might push up 2K a notch to
help me out, my Tennitus is on that frequency. At the club, its basically flat. On the
Monitors, that's where the EQ is used. I use the EQ to get rid of the squeal from the Mic's.

Regarding shows, the only thing I ever adjusted frequency response on
was voice channels... let's face it, some voices NEED that. For everything else, you fiddle with the level, not the response.

I adjust frequency response to make it clean. Each mic has a tendency to pick up sounds from
other instruments. Lets take the Tom mic's... the #1 tom is so close to the snare that it
picks that up, so I adjust the frequency of that channel to remove the snare frequency. The
mic also picks up the china/cymbals. I again use the EQ on the board to remove those
frequency's. On the vocal mic's, they pick up everything behind them. Drums, Cymbals,
Guitars, etc... I adjust the freq's with them also... If that doesn't work, then I use the
compressors/limitors and gate that channel... that's dangerous but with some experiance, you
can find the middle ground. Using both I can clean up everything... I'm still playing with the
recording portion. One day I'll have the time and set up my computer to record the show.

Reverb and echo, of course, are different beasts. Interestingly
enough, a good reverb can obviate the need to adjust the frequency response for marginal voices.

I set the vocal channels with a little reverb that I turn off and on for each song. If the
song has Delay/Echo or Chorus. I put that in as appropriate. At times, I play the sound board
as an instrument. :) If I do an outdoor show, it a whole different animal.



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Shawn Highfield wrote to SNIPER <=-

SNIPER wrote to Shawn Highfield <=-

That means your either the guitar player, or the lead singer. You damn sure aren't the drummer or the bass player. :)

Very true, I have talent. ;) I do play the bass in the studio
though, and used to be a pretty good bass player when I was a teenager.

Actaully, the drummer is the most talented person there in my opinion. When you can do 4 and 5
things at a time... Me, I've got some polish in me, and I can't do more than one or two things
at a time... I can play a guitar, but don't ask me to talk/sing at the same time. :)

<Crank it to 11> kinda gave it away. :)

Aye.

Peavey Tube amps? Geez... if your that old, you should be running
through Marshalls, or Fender Reverb Twin... Maybe an old

Never had money to spend on this, we don't really take it serious and never have. The only time music becomes a business for me is when
I'm being paid for something (Normally a jingle, or a paradoy for someone).

Peavey's are the vampires of the music world. They are damn near immortal. I've got an old
Peavey CS800 amp I bought over 25 years ago It ran the tops of my PA system for my band for
all those years... Not one day of trouble from it. I changed out the bottom amp for more
powerful ones over the years and used Peavey amps for each, and every one of them was still
operational when I moved up to the next. I've got a 3000 and a 4000 that are 10+ years old.
So, don't get me wrong... As far as Amps go, I rate Peavey's at the top of the list. Although,
when it comes to Guitar amps, I go with Marshall, and Fender, Bass amps, I tend to like Ampeg.
I absolutely hate Line 6 amps, processed crap.

VOX... :) But what I was talking about is your PA system... what kind
of amps are you using to push your 6' high speaker
cabinets?

They are old as sin No name brand built in a knob hill farms basket amps. I'll go look tonight if I ever get home.

Depending on the room, you need some delay/echo and Chours effects...

Dont need it for the clubs we play. We have used some delay/echo effects when we play outside shows though.

And that's probably why your still playing in "Tiny little craphole" venus. :)

That and we know it's not a real job. We don't kid ourselfs about getting signed adn never have. Been playing togther for 20+ years now
and can still book at clubs with nothing more then a phone call. So
for what we are, I'm calling it a sucess! ;)

I gave up that "Dream" a long time ago, and when we broke up our band I became a session man,
and finally gave that up and now I'm a sound man that likes to sit in once in a while. :)

interested in the show... Needless to say, that guy left the show and hasn't ever bothered me again.

Laugh good for you.

highs, toneing down the mids... :) Damn guitar
players! Ain't got no damn ears! :)

AT least we have talent. ;)

I see your ego sneaking out again. :)

I'll bet you Digitalman will agree with me! :) He's a drummer.

What do you call the crazy ugly guy who hangs out with musicians?
The DRUMMER! ;) <Ducks under table>

A band is only as good as their weakest member. :)

think they know everything and vocalist know nothing at all. :)

My wife is our lead vocalist / lead guitar and she's got a great
ear! When I write new songs she yells at me from the other end of the house if something "twings" in her ears. ;)

Its no suprise something "Twings" in her ears... your playing a guitar through a Peavey Tube
amp! Whatdaya expect? Get a Marshall and it won't "Twing" in her ear! :)

Hmmm... woman guitarist... interesting. :)




... Help! I'm talking, and I can't shut up! - Feminist
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Re: Re: PA Systems.
By: Sniper to Deuce on Sun Feb 03 2008 11:36 am

Why do you think when you go out and buy a CD, and listen to it through your stereo, you turn up the lows and high end? I'll
bet your equalizer is in a V shape. Pushing the lows and pushing the highs, toneing down the mids... :) Damn guitar
players! Ain't got no damn ears! :)

When I buy a CD and listen to it through my stereo, I cut the EQ circuits out completely and run it through a straight DC power amp.
The levels have already been adjusted. You don't need an EQ, you need better speakers.

On my personal end, I have my EQ on, but its basically flat. I might push up 2K a notch to
help me out, my Tennitus is on that frequency. At the club, its basically flat. On the

Well, the EQ on my system at home right now is audible whenever it's on, so even a flat EQ gives the sound a rougher edge... not a hiss, but it definately dirties it up a little.

I adjust frequency response to make it clean. Each mic has a tendency to pick up sounds from
other instruments. Lets take the Tom mic's... the #1 tom is so close to
the snare that it
picks that up, so I adjust the frequency of that channel to remove the
snare frequency. The
mic also picks up the china/cymbals. I again use the EQ on the board to remove those
frequency's. On the vocal mic's, they pick up everything behind them. Drums, Cymbals,

Sounds like you use a much more elaborate drum mic setup than I ever did. Generally, it was a front and shoulder setup.

Vocal mics I never had a problem with them picking up the drums, but maybe I just never payed enough attention. We didn't have live bands very often and when we did, about one in three would hire a pro sound guy, so my job was mostly explaining what we had so they could decide not to use it. :-)

I set the vocal channels with a little reverb that I turn off and on for each song. If the
song has Delay/Echo or Chorus. I put that in as appropriate. At times, I play the sound board
as an instrument. :) If I do an outdoor show, it a whole different
animal.

I've never done an outdoor show, but I've done a number in concrete floored quonsets. I don't belive a worse sounding room has ever been constructed.

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When I buy a CD and listen to it through my stereo, I cut the EQ circuits out completely and run it through a straight DC power amp. The levels have already been adjusted. You don't need an EQ, you need better speakers.

I fully agree with you on this one Deuce. I run a McIntosh CD MCD201 player into a McIntosh 2205 power amp. For speakers I use Kef Model 104|2 ... Sounds killer at any volume from low, to blow the roof off. You can really tell a good recording with a setup like this. Or any high quality setup...

-Jason

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SNIPER wrote to Shawn Highfield <=-

Actaully, the drummer is the most talented person there in my opinion.

There are some good ones, but most of them are insane, and if you
get into one small argument they leave and go to the next band as
there is always a huge shortage of Drummers.

at a time... I can play a guitar, but don't ask me to talk/sing at the same time. :)

Doesn't bother me, it's a matter of just playing the guitar and not
thinking about either singnig or playing.

So, don't get me wrong... As far as Amps go, I rate Peavey's at the top
of the list. Although,
when it comes to Guitar amps, I go with Marshall, and Fender, Bass
amps, I tend to like Ampeg.
I absolutely hate Line 6 amps, processed crap.

Those I do't like either... the processed computerized crap drives
me crazy.

I gave up that "Dream" a long time ago, and when we broke up our band I became a session man,
and finally gave that up and now I'm a sound man that likes to sit in
once in a while. :)

so long as your happy doing something. I will never be completly out
of the Music, thought its harder and harder every year that goes by for
me to play. I have horribile arthritus in my left wrist / hand, so it's
a chore for me, but I still enjoy it enough to pop a couple advil and
play through the pain.

Accupuncture does help, but it's quite expensive and once the wife's
benfits are used up for the year I tend to not go as often as I should.

Its no suprise something "Twings" in her ears... your playing a guitar through a Peavey Tube amp! Whatdaya expect?

Laugh

Get a Marshall and it won't "Twing" in her ear!

I'll get one when the ol Peavy drops dead and can't be repaired anymore.

Hmmm... woman guitarist... interesting. :)

She's also the lead singer. Really cool to hear her sing some of
the misfits tunes. ;)



Shawn 'Tiny' Highfield - http://t1ny.kicks-ass.org:9080

... Useless Invention: Battery-operated nuclear power plants.

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Shawn Highfield wrote to SNIPER <=-

.TAG: GOPGP/W32 v1.21

SNIPER wrote to Shawn Highfield <=-

Actaully, the drummer is the most talented person there in my opinion.

There are some good ones, but most of them are insane, and if you
get into one small argument they leave and go to the next band as
there is always a huge shortage of Drummers.

I never said drummers were sane. I have yet to meet one that wasn't completely insane... Just ask Rob (Digitalman). :)

at a time... I can play a guitar, but don't ask me to talk/sing at the same time. :)

Doesn't bother me, it's a matter of just playing the guitar and not
thinking about either singnig or playing.

I'm cursed by my lineage. When I'm playing guitar and really into it,
you can talk to me all you want, I won't hear ya though. I "Zone out"
big time.

So, don't get me wrong... As far as Amps go, I rate Peavey's at the top
of the list. Although,
when it comes to Guitar amps, I go with Marshall, and Fender, Bass
amps, I tend to like Ampeg.
I absolutely hate Line 6 amps, processed crap.

Those I do't like either... the processed computerized crap drives
me crazy.

I was at my favorite stomping ground on Monday. Local music store...
They got this Line6 guitar hanging on the wall. It played good. Setup
was nice... but no pickups... its all processed. Has a little knob you
turn to pick different sounds... I played with it for about 15 minutes
and then put it back on the wall... My buddy, the owner, asked me if he
could box it up for me. I replied back that he could box it up and I'd
help him toss it in the dumpster out back!

I gave up that "Dream" a long time ago, and when we broke up our band I became a session man,
and finally gave that up and now I'm a sound man that likes to sit in
once in a while. :)

so long as your happy doing something. I will never be completly out
of the Music, thought its harder and harder every year that goes by
for
me to play. I have horribile arthritus in my left wrist / hand, so
it's
a chore for me, but I still enjoy it enough to pop a couple advil and
play through the pain.

Accupuncture does help, but it's quite expensive and once the wife's
benfits are used up for the year I tend to not go as often as I
should.

Yea, alot of the guys that come through ask me if I miss it, mostly the younger bands, and I have to say, that I don't... At least I don't miss traveling around to some hole in the wall in some no-name town, just to
make a couple hundered bucks a weekend... Now, I'm at the same bar, deal
with the same people, same equipment, and I have some say in what we get,
and how things are run.

Its no suprise something "Twings" in her ears... your playing a guitar through a Peavey Tube amp! Whatdaya expect?

Laugh

Get a Marshall and it won't "Twing" in her ear!

I'll get one when the ol Peavy drops dead and can't be repaired
anymore.

Hmmm... woman guitarist... interesting. :)

She's also the lead singer. Really cool to hear her sing some of
the misfits tunes. ;)

I got a female singer coming in on the 16th... Only problem with
that band is they play nothing but country... most of it is that old shit kicker stuff... I'll be treating a headache by the third song. She's got
one hell of a voice... but I have never been a country music fan and the
old female country stuff just drives me insane. I'd like to hear someone
sing some old Pat Benetar, Heart, etc... Anything but Country & Western!



... Send MORE Missionaries -- the last ones were DELICIOUS!
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Phantomrage wrote to Deuce <=-

When I buy a CD and listen to it through my stereo, I cut the EQ circuits out completely and run it through a straight DC power amp. The levels have already been adjusted. You don't need an EQ, you need better speakers.

I fully agree with you on this one Deuce. I run a McIntosh CD MCD201 player into a McIntosh 2205 power amp. For speakers I use Kef Model
104|2 ... Sounds killer at any volume from low, to blow the roof off.
You can really tell a good recording with a setup like this. Or any
high quality setup...

Basically, the only place I use the Equalizers is on the vocal monitors.
I use them to kill the squeal/hum that microphones create. The primary
EQ is basically flat with the exception of one frequency that causes an
echo in the bar I work in. Now, in our conversation, I have 2 JBL SRX
728S Subs, 2 JBL SRX 725S, and 2 JBL SRX 722S speakers, pushed by 3
amps. There's the Peavey CS4000, pushing the 2 18" subs, a Peavey CS3000 pushing the 2 15" cabinets and a CS2000 pushing the dual 12's. THis
is all controlled by a little DBX 234 3 way Crossover. So, that's a
possible 9000 Watts. Can you say blow the roof off? If you liked that,
check out the description of my large PA system... I have the same
cabinets as listed here, but, there's 48 of them. :)

... stand back! ... i don't know how big this thing gets!!
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Deuce wrote to Sniper <=-

Re: Re: PA Systems.
By: Sniper to Deuce on Sun Feb 03 2008 11:36 am

Why do you think when you go out and buy a CD, and listen to it through your stereo, you turn up the lows and high end? I'll
bet your equalizer is in a V shape. Pushing the lows and pushing the highs, toneing down the mids... :) Damn guitar
players! Ain't got no damn ears! :)

When I buy a CD and listen to it through my stereo, I cut the EQ circuits out completely and run it through a straight DC power amp.
The levels have already been adjusted. You don't need an EQ, you need better speakers.

On my personal end, I have my EQ on, but its basically flat. I might push up 2K a notch to
help me out, my Tennitus is on that frequency. At the club, its basically flat. On the

Well, the EQ on my system at home right now is audible whenever it's
on, so even a flat EQ gives the sound a rougher edge... not a hiss, but
it definately dirties it up a little.

If your EQ is making noise, then there's something wrong with it. Its
more than likely damaged. Good 31/32 freqency EQ's are not that
expensive. :)

I adjust frequency response to make it clean. Each mic has a tendency to pick up sounds from
other instruments. Lets take the Tom mic's... the #1 tom is so close to
the snare that it
picks that up, so I adjust the frequency of that channel to remove the
snare frequency. The
mic also picks up the china/cymbals. I again use the EQ on the board to remove those
frequency's. On the vocal mic's, they pick up everything behind them. Drums, Cymbals,

Sounds like you use a much more elaborate drum mic setup than I ever
did. Generally, it was a front and shoulder setup.

I spent 6 months in training over 2 years ago, being taught how to run
live sound. I can run pretty much any kind of setup.
I've worked with Soundcraft, Yamaha, EuroDesk, Peavey, Beringer and Yorkville/Alto mixers. Ran a few outdoor shows with a bit over 50,000
watts, to an indoor show with 2,000 watts.

I own 5 complete PA systems, each is a different wattage setup, from a
little 8/16 channel setup with 2 15" speakers (EV's) being pushed by a
Yamaha 4500 amp, to a 72 channel setup with 16 Dual 18" speakers on the
bottom and 16 Dual 15" speakers and 16 Dual 12" speakers (all JBL SRX
series), (8 of each on each side, total of 48 speaker cabinets, total of
96 speakers. All pushed by 3 racks of Peavey power amps, (8) 4000's, (8) 3000's, and (8) 2000's. Just depends on what the venu/show wants/needs.
:)

Vocal mics I never had a problem with them picking up the drums, but
maybe I just never payed enough attention. We didn't have live bands
very often and when we did, about one in three would hire a pro sound
guy, so my job was mostly explaining what we had so they could decide
not to use it. :-)

I set the vocal channels with a little reverb that I turn off and on for each song. If the
song has Delay/Echo or Chorus. I put that in as appropriate. At times, I play the sound board
as an instrument. :) If I do an outdoor show, it a whole different
animal.

I've never done an outdoor show, but I've done a number in concrete floored quonsets. I don't belive a worse sounding room has ever been constructed.

Concrete floors are not that bad. Metal buildings though... those are a challenge. There's one down this way I dealt with last Saturday, called
City Limits. Huge metal building/bar with concrete floor, except for
the raised wooden dance floor in front of the stage <I tripped over that
damn thing so many times, I lost count>. Sound just bounces right off
the damn walls. Bad feedback, echo everywhere. Nothing you can really
do about it... My poor little feedback cancelator was working overtime.
I put in a huge amount of Echo to cancel out the buildings natural echo,
and that helped, but my ears are still ringing from that show.



... What on earth would a man do with himself if something did not stand in his

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Re: Re: PA Systems.
By: Sniper to Deuce on Wed Feb 06 2008 07:43 pm

Well, the EQ on my system at home right now is audible whenever it's on, so even a flat EQ gives the sound a rougher edge... not a hiss,
but it definately dirties it up a little.

If your EQ is making noise, then there's something wrong with it. Its
more than likely damaged. Good 31/32 freqency EQ's are not that
expensive. :)

Well, it's not so much making noise as degrading sound. I've just written it off as a byproduct of having More Stuff in the curciut.

Sounds like you use a much more elaborate drum mic setup than I ever did. Generally, it was a front and shoulder setup.

I own 5 complete PA systems, each is a different wattage setup, from a little 8/16 channel setup with 2 15" speakers (EV's) being pushed by a Yamaha 4500 amp, to a 72 channel setup with 16 Dual 18" speakers on the bottom and 16 Dual 15" speakers and 16 Dual 12" speakers (all JBL SRX series), (8 of each on each side, total of 48 speaker cabinets, total of
96 speakers. All pushed by 3 racks of Peavey power amps, (8) 4000's, (8) 3000's, and (8) 2000's. Just depends on what the venu/show wants/needs.
:)

Yeah, just a skootch more elaborate. :-)

I've never done an outdoor show, but I've done a number in concrete floored quonsets. I don't belive a worse sounding room has ever been constructed.

Concrete floors are not that bad. Metal buildings though... those are a challenge. There's one down this way I dealt with last Saturday, called City Limits. Huge metal building/bar with concrete floor, except for
the raised wooden dance floor in front of the stage <I tripped over that damn thing so many times, I lost count>. Sound just bounces right off
the damn walls. Bad feedback, echo everywhere. Nothing you can really
do about it... My poor little feedback cancelator was working overtime.
I put in a huge amount of Echo to cancel out the buildings natural echo,
and that helped, but my ears are still ringing from that show.

At least the walls were flat... corrugated curved metal walls plus a concrete floor makes for audio horror. There is nothing to stop the sound... the best you can do is place the speakers as high as you can and keep one spot (the dance area) relatively clean. Everywhere else, you just have a pileup of sound.

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On Feb 06, 2008 07:24pm, SNIPER wrote to Shawn Highfield:

I never said drummers were sane. I have yet to meet one that wasn't completely insane... Just ask Rob (Digitalman). :)

Okay we're on the same page there. ;)

and then put it back on the wall... My buddy, the owner, asked me if he could box it up for me. I replied back that he could box it up and I'd help him toss it in the dumpster out back!

They'll soon do away with strings, and make the whole thing digital. Touch sensitive, light operated. Wait and see, I think we're only a few years off.

with the same people, same equipment, and I have some say in what we get, and how things are run.

That's good. We play the same few bars as the rest of them all want cover bands and we don't much care for playing all covers.

old female country stuff just drives me insane. I'd like to hear someone sing some old Pat Benetar, Heart, etc... Anything but Country & Western!

I'll see if I can dig out some old recordings we did. A few years back we decided to try the whole coverband thing to pay off the credit cards, we did
it for about 6 months and had to quit as it was booooooring.

The sound guy at the bigger club we played recorded a show for us, and we have it on CD's somewhere. We did a pat benetar and heart song. I was soo happy to hear my (at the time) girlfriend was able to sing Heart.

Shawn
Written on: Thursday, 02/07/2008, at 09:24:48

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Deuce wrote to Sniper <=-

Re: Re: PA Systems.
By: Sniper to Deuce on Wed Feb 06 2008 07:43 pm

Well, the EQ on my system at home right now is audible whenever it's on, so even a flat EQ gives the sound a rougher edge... not a hiss,
but it definately dirties it up a little.

If your EQ is making noise, then there's something wrong with it. Its
more than likely damaged. Good 31/32 freqency EQ's are not that
expensive. :)

Well, it's not so much making noise as degrading sound. I've just
written it off as a byproduct of having More Stuff in the curciut.

Not like they are expensive or anything... Hell, I got about 10 extra
sitting around... although, it would cost more for me to ship you one,
than it would you buy one locally.

Sounds like you use a much more elaborate drum mic setup than I ever did. Generally, it was a front and shoulder setup.

I own 5 complete PA systems, each is a different wattage setup, from a little 8/16 channel setup with 2 15" speakers (EV's) being pushed by a Yamaha 4500 amp, to a 72 channel setup with 16 Dual 18" speakers on the bottom and 16 Dual 15" speakers and 16 Dual 12" speakers (all JBL SRX series), (8 of each on each side, total of 48 speaker cabinets, total of
96 speakers. All pushed by 3 racks of Peavey power amps, (8) 4000's, (8) 3000's, and (8) 2000's. Just depends on what the venu/show wants/needs.
:)

Yeah, just a skootch more elaborate. :-)

Depends on the show... Scary thing is... I rarely get to run them. I
work at a club pretty much every weekend. I got a couple of guys that
take care of it though.

I've never done an outdoor show, but I've done a number in concrete floored quonsets. I don't belive a worse sounding room has ever been constructed.

Concrete floors are not that bad. Metal buildings though... those are a challenge. There's one down this way I dealt with last Saturday, called City Limits. Huge metal building/bar with concrete floor, except for
the raised wooden dance floor in front of the stage <I tripped over that damn thing so many times, I lost count>. Sound just bounces right off
the damn walls. Bad feedback, echo everywhere. Nothing you can really
do about it... My poor little feedback cancelator was working overtime.
I put in a huge amount of Echo to cancel out the buildings natural echo,
and that helped, but my ears are still ringing from that show.

At least the walls were flat... corrugated curved metal walls plus a concrete floor makes for audio horror. There is nothing to stop the sound... the best you can do is place the speakers as high as you can
and keep one spot (the dance area) relatively clean. Everywhere else,
you just have a pileup of sound.

The walls were not "Flat". Corrugated/Curved is exactly what I delt
with... and it sucked bad. I told the ower he really needs to put up
internal walls with some sound proof covering. Hell, some damn
curtains would help!


... I have become comfortably numb. - Pink Floyd
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Re: Re: PA Systems.
By: Sniper to Deuce on Wed Feb 13 2008 07:08 pm

The walls were not "Flat". Corrugated/Curved is exactly what I delt
with... and it sucked bad. I told the ower he really needs to put up internal walls with some sound proof covering. Hell, some damn
curtains would help!

Ah... yeah, hanging curtains from the ceiling every 10-20' really helps out in quonsets. Anything that keeps the number of echos down.

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